RAUK - Archived Forum - Where to look in Dorset?

Hi there, I am new here, Im a 19 year old male from Essex, and since I was 8 almost every year I have been going on holiday to Poole in Dorset in order to see the Reptiles and mphibians that are so plentiful there. I used to be a member of the herpotlogical society and because of this am aware of a secret reserve for them deep in the island of purbeck. However seeing them in this location, (some of you may know the place) proves a tough job in both getting there, and the fact that Im not sure of the legality of me being there without official herps.  Other than that I have tried places like studland heath, canford heath and various other places with only minor success, although I was lucky enough to see a Smooth snake once in canford heath.

I am going to Dorset in 10 days  and would like to know of the sort of times of the day, and exact spots where I am likely to see Smooth snakes, Sand lizards, and really all the reptiles/amphibians you can.  s I say, despite hours of roaming heathlands in studland and canford I have only had limited success, even using the tops to spot them, can anyone offer advice on exact locations!

Thanks

-Rob

I would have to say why go all the way to Dorset when you can go out in Essex and find the 4 widespread species and a few introduced species - possibly Green Lizard etc

I would also like to add that you will need a license to look for the sand lizards and smooth snakes - so I would contact DARN and see if you could go out with their members who are licensed.

Of course if you like you could help the reptiles in Essex and come out on one of our surveys looking for adders etc

regards

JC

Ah, I wasnt aware I needed a liscence :-s.  urely though how could anyone know  wheather u were looking for a specific species or not :s

I choose Dorset because Poole is a nice destination for lots of different things but I always found the time to relax and look for some of favourite animals.

If you could let me know of some places in essex where reptiles are plentiful I would like to know, as the only place I know of a specific adder-rich spot in epping forest.

Thanks

-Rob

You do need a licence to photograph or otherwise disturb sand lizards and smooth snakes. Whether or not anyone knows isn't really the point Rob, unless you fancy a convinction for disturbing protected species.. not so good eh?

Your best bet is to contact someone who is licenced and is prepared to take you out, you'll then see the animals, not break the law and learn plenty about the species from them. There are plenty of us on here who do hold licences for various protected species.

Most of Essex is good for the widespread species (including my garden).

We do have a policy on here not to post up specific site locations, especially for adder. Though I doubt if it is much of secret that the Essex Seawalls might be a good place to look for adders.

I understand, but what Im trying to make clear is that  when I have seen Sand Lizards and smooth snakes its been whilst searching in general.

It seems to make no sense as how could people be prosicuted for just generally walking and searching about, no-one could know you were specificly after sand lizards and smooth snakes, and the heaths in dorset are open to everyone, if I walk past a sand lizard basking, and watch it Im pretty sure thats not breaking the law.  I am as keen as anyone to protect the endangered species but Im just a bit confused about this law thing.

I am only a general watcher at the momment because I simply havent the time at the present period to get right into it but I do like to wander around the heaths and that and see what I can find.

The bit that confuses me is that if you are generally jus wandering around the places how could anyone tell if you was searching specificly for smooth snakes and sand lizards, as many animals inhabit the  areas in question.

I ask because Im slightly worried now, the heaths and quarrys say nothing about needing liscences to walk about on them :-s.

Maybe you was under the impression I was going to special reserves or something.

-Rob

Like Rob, I was surprised to learn that a licence is required even to watch Sand Lizards and Smooth Snakes. So how does someone go about applying for a licence ? I am a BHS member and have been for a long time.

Thanks,

Mike

well Im confused, because surely if you happen upon one of the reptiles whilst walking in a perfectly public place, there is no law that can disallow this.. and also if anyone did say anything how are they to know exactly what species you are looking for  I am slightly worried now since I fequent the heaths and grasslands of Dorset!

I have also been a BHS member in the past and dontremember that being the case before.

On another note, the first replyer if you could let me know about the things that go on in essex and how to join them, would be a start.

On  a further note, why have I been rated 1 star just because I was curious about the sand lizard/smooth snake situation. I find this highly unfriendly as I was just interested to get back into Herpatology and have been slightrly put off by the attitude I have recieved :(

Rob

Dear Rob

There is no attitude - it is just that the law protects the sand lizard and smooth snake from disturbance which unfortuantely does include general surveying in areas where these species occur - people walking about in Dorset Heaths say on a walk wouldnt be prosecuted for seeing a sand lizard - by a herpetologist generally looking for reptiles would have a harder justification if you were on a site and was challenged by the land owner or someone similar.

It is always best to get a license so that you are covered. The Herpetological Conservation Trust licenses volunteers to go out and help with their Smooth Snake/Sand lizard Survey - they need volunteers to help find smooth snakes in the field - which is part of an interesting research project.

So I would contact the HCT - let them know that you would like to survey for smooth snakes/sand lizards - they can then direct you to good spots - also to areas where they may have released sand lizards - or new areas which need surveying - once they have issued you with a survey license

Their offices are in Boscombe so you can meet up with their recording officer Chris Gleed Owen.

contact details

The Herpetological Conservation Trust, 

655A Christchurch Road, 

Boscombe, Bournemouth, 

Dorset BH1 4AP

Chief Executive Officer:  Dr A.H. Gent

Tel: (44) 01202 391319  

Fax: (44) 01202 392785 

The Essex Group - ARG contact details are as follows - 01702 540600 - Ray Cranfield - and our email if essex_arg@hotmail.com - We are going to Peldon and Great Wigborough this Friday 5th August- from 10.00am - we have a monitoring site for reptiles here which we would welcome the help of volunteers - we recently found that a female adder had taken up residence on a hibernacula bank which was constructed this winter within a countryside stewardship margin

Another thought on the licensing thing you can apply online to English Nature http://www.english-nature.co.uk/science/licensing/

JC

Also you are right that you do not need a license to walk around the heaths - and you do not need a license if you just watch a sand lizard - though to find smooth snakes you may need to lift objects such as corrugated iron and other debris as they are not often seen in the open very easily - this is where the disturbance comes in - you are effectively disturbing the animals place of shelter - so a license would be needed to make this legal

please do not be put off - recording the distribution of these rare species is important and with this information when it is sent to HCT can help with determining the conservation status of the species etc etc

sorry for making you feel uneasy about your forays into the dorset heaths - happy hunting for those pieces of heather which just happen to be in the same shot as that basking sand lizard or was it a viviparous lizard -

hope you link up with some of the locals down there and that you get out to the best spots for those animals

JC

Ok thanks for the reply, I was a little concerned I would get blackballed, if people were thinking I was questioning the law, I wasnt  argueing against it but I was concerned I could've got arrested for things I didnt know I couldve.  Evidently  that is exactly the case as I was not aware of the liscence. Thanks for the info I will try and get hold of a liscence at some point, and look into the other things. Its a shame I dont have my own means of transport yet as getting to Dorset means asking a  friend or family member, but we do all like that area and usually go once a year for  a week or 2.

Obviously not knowing of the liscence, I have previously seen sand lizards and smooth snakes in Dorset and  at one point found a particular place had a big decline in snakes of all kinds between 1996 and present day, perhaps you would like to add me to a private messenger and I could ask about this as its always been something I have wondered, since(rightly so) we arent allowed to discuss locations  on hhere :-)

Thanks

-Rob

Jon

Excellent replies - the issues relating to herps and the law (and many other groups) can be confusing but I think you explained the main points well.

h right lol sorry other forums I am on base it upon what other members rate people.  My mistake  

-Rob

Right - but going out to photograph sand lizards would indeed still need to be licensed - as the very act of going out looking for sand lizards and disturbing them - whether unintentional or not is still technically 'illegal' -

So it is best to obtain a license so that the problem doesnt arise when someone takes up the cause to get these would be photographers arrested!! which could happen - in this day and age anything is possible especially when 'developers' are being jumped on while other organisations disregard the laws protecting our hereptofauna

As with newt surveying - if you go out to a pond - and it is likely that crested newts may be present then the advice is to get a license to survey the pond - you could argue that torching at night does no significant harm - in conservation terms - but it is disturbance

The same should be said for people trampling over heathland to photograph sand lizards - we should really try to set examples - so surveying for sand lizards should really be licensed even when it is just to get a snap shot of the animal with a camera -

At least the records will go to English Nature - and HCT in the license returns but of course that appears to be another matter which needs airing

JC 

Sorry herpetofauna

Just a general question in regards to  other species and liscences etc.

Do you need any form of liscence to find/photograph or handle Slow worms, Common lizards and grass snakes and adders? Only when I went on a herp day out once in Epping forest we were allowed to hold common lizards in the correct manner.

ObviouslyI would not reccommend attempting to handle adders, but I was just curious.

-Rob

No you don't need a license for common lizards, slow-worms, grass snakes and adder. They are generally referred to as the 'widespread' species and do not have the same level of protection under the WCA as Sand Lizards and Smooth Snakes.

With amphibians Great Crested Newts and Natterjack Toads have the same level of protection as Sand Lizards and Smooth snakes. Whilst smooth and palmate newts, common frog and commn toad have very little protection at all. (and there is another issue that needs to be addressed) 

Im really confused now, so it is ok for me to  see Sand Lizards/Smooth snakes and take pictures in the heath without a liscence so long as I am not destroying their habitat or causing damage to shelter, such as  corrungated iron etc, or touching the animals?

This law seems rather unclear  because one persons saying one thing and ones saying another,and I would like a definitive answer really since its not long before I visit Poole now!

Regards,

-Rob